tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4499398322302495158.post6690097264876884919..comments2023-03-27T11:27:07.759+02:00Comments on A Skeptic's thoughts about climbing, wellness, movements, energy, yoga: A biased view of the yoga industry from someone who's glad her writings don't count for marks any more :)Yoginihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09483919150641771008noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4499398322302495158.post-68506788595241346742011-08-24T12:18:51.014+02:002011-08-24T12:18:51.014+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.yarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06018536752583225516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4499398322302495158.post-1330457140282121932011-08-14T01:59:18.975+02:002011-08-14T01:59:18.975+02:00Hi Nathan, deeper practice certainly does not mean...Hi Nathan, deeper practice certainly does not mean more poses, and I do agree with you that many people take up teacher training out of boredom with what they do on their own. When I started the primary series I could touch my forehead to my knee in forward bends and I thought that was pretty good already. Chest to leg forward folding is for freaks of nature only. My teacher would come and silently push gently on my back for at least one forward bend every class. I thought at the time that he was wasting his efforts, but I was impressed that he kept at it for months. And then one day my chest touched my legs in a forward fold without assistance. It was a heart-opening moment for me. Not only did I achieve a pose that I thought was physically impossible for my body, but that someone would dedicate so much effort to help me with anything was so heartwarming. In a large class with mostly drop-in students it would be a lot tougher for this style of yoga teaching to happen.Yoginihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09483919150641771008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4499398322302495158.post-81532842587472681692011-08-13T19:57:31.890+02:002011-08-13T19:57:31.890+02:00Another thing to consider in all this is how we...Another thing to consider in all this is how we've come to define "deep practice."<br /><br />"Even if one makes up a new yoga style where you start students off in beginner poses and then gradually take them to deeper poses is totally fine. I just feel like the popular all-level drop-in large class format can only take students so far." <br /><br />The thing is that I don't think it's necessary for many folks to learning progressively more challenging asanas. I have probably learned a few hundred yoga poses over the years I've practiced. Maybe more than that. However, when I consider what I keep going back to - it's the bread and butter stuff. Trikonasana. Downdog. Warrior poses. Etc. Although it can be really wonderful to learn new, more challenging poses, there also seems to be a collector or consumer mentality behind some of that desire. <br /><br />Few want to work with the boredom that comes with doing the same old poses again and again - but that's exactly what many of us need to do. It's like sitting meditation, watching the breath going in and out. Boredom is bound to show up. And then what? Can we hang with it until it passes? Or are we gonna keep trying to find something novel to skip our attention to. <br /><br />Some of the demand for more teacher trainings is probably coming from this place. The struggle with boredom, and thinking that learning some more challenging stuff might relieve that.Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4499398322302495158.post-52420535861736148152011-08-12T23:13:04.575+02:002011-08-12T23:13:04.575+02:00@Sereneflavor: Thanks!
@Grimmly: I always love he...@Sereneflavor: Thanks!<br /><br />@Grimmly: I always love hearing from you. Sorry I definitely didn't mean that Ashtanga is the "only" original style. Even if one makes up a new yoga style where you start students off in beginner poses and then gradually take them to deeper poses is totally fine. I just feel like the popular all-level drop-in large class format can only take students so far. At some point an intermediate student would need some personal help for getting past a hurdle to get to the next level. <br /><br />@Alyson, thank you for your input :) I think I would prefer if they called these training something like "deepening yoga study" rather than "teacher training", but apparently the latter name attracts way more students (ie. more profit) than the former. I think yoga has helped to get the world economy going -- it got stingy old me to sign up for expensive workshops and purchase outrageously priced outfits! It also makes some new yoga teachers temporarily happy until they realize that it doesn't pay enough to support a family/pay for dental benefits. At that point we hope they've done enough yoga to be at peace with reality and find another source of income without getting all bitter and depressed :PYoginihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09483919150641771008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4499398322302495158.post-86923761742780409562011-08-12T18:37:46.578+02:002011-08-12T18:37:46.578+02:00Hi Yyogini
More from me! thanks for the link to th...Hi Yyogini<br />More from me! thanks for the link to the John Friend interview. Something he said was very interesting , and you touch upon it. When students progress they want to go deeper, but that often means TT courses. Well in the UK that's similar because if you want to study it deeper the main (but not only!) option is the British Wheel of Yoga TT Diploma, and although it's called Teacher Training, even if you don't want to be a teacher, you need to teach a certain number of hours and get observed whilst your teaching them to pass. Even if you just want to study for yourself. On day one of my TT course the tutor said "I hope none of you are here because you want to make a career out of it because let me tell you now, you won't." The teacher definitely needs to have a deeper reason than just 'wanting to teach', as you point out.<br />thanks for the links!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4499398322302495158.post-91859818990691461842011-08-12T18:22:32.697+02:002011-08-12T18:22:32.697+02:00Hi Yyogini, I really enjoyed your insightful post ...Hi Yyogini, I really enjoyed your insightful post on the yoga industry, and your views on Ashtanga.<br /><br />I think the situation with the industry may be similar in the UK, but the teachers I've experienced do have insight. The yoga teachers I know in Wales barely make a living from yoga, even if they are teaching full-time, but with big name gurus seemingly to be very rich and with celebrity status I can see why some people would go into teaching, but it's not like that for 98% of teachers! And how can people be qualified in yoga after 4 weeks? How can they have developed that insight you rightly say is needed? That can only come from years of experience and personal practice and study.<br /><br />Grimmley - as you say, Ashtanga isn't 'original' yoga, and is less than 100 years old. In fact, in Yoga Body, Mark singleton explains how we've got to this point today, with modern asana-based yoga and a yoga industry - basically all the 'weird' yoga things (tantric, kundalini, cleansing, rituals etc) was disassociated from c.100 years ago in India and with influences from European gymnastics, British physical training and an interest in Indian physical culture to make the nation strong, the asanas we know and love today were developed. As you say, K has several big name teachers all with different styles (Iyengar, Jois, Desikachar) - how is this? Because they were all with him at different times of his life when he was teaching different approaches, maybe because he body changed and so different yoga was suitable? <br /><br />In my view, yoga is a changing and evolving 'system'. We'll never really know what yoga 'looked like' in 1850, or 1650, or 1150, or 500AD, or 500BC but it was probably different from now. Doesn't make today's wrong, just different. As you say Yyogini, it's the meaning and the intention that is really important - why is this being taught?, what is this good for?, how can this be adapted for my body's physicality?, how can this be adapted or adjusted to suit different people?, what is the intention of this pose? what is the intention of this class? If we can answer those questions as teachers and practitioners we're on the right track, which ever track it is!<br /><br />Thanks for your interesting post!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4499398322302495158.post-65884483189978390762011-08-12T10:00:10.414+02:002011-08-12T10:00:10.414+02:00Love coming here Yyogini, this burnt sienna is gor...Love coming here Yyogini, this burnt sienna is gorgeous. Great post though I struggle with part of it. Paragraph five you seem to be using ashtanga as a reference point as If Ashtanga is an origin and everyone has veered away from that, simplifying here, tweaking there depending on taste but do we really think Ashtanga was what Krishnamacharya was taught by Brahmachari up in that cave. Ashtanga itself seems to be just another style, approach to practice that was a response to the times, few years later krishnamacharya would have a different approach altogether and it would be very tailored to who ever came to him. Alignment seems to be an Iyengar thing and doesn't seem to have been taught by K or Jois. It seems to have come into ashtanga late when the Iyengar guys crossed over. And of course Ashtanga doesn't tend to focus on the spiritual or philosophical aspect of the practice and pretty much avoids the other limbs.<br />I don't know, more and more it seems to me that there is no Yoga, no one yoga, true yoga that can be taught. It's a personal journey, exploration and all the texts, all the teachers, all the styles just marks along the way. I really don't think it matters if you practice with someone who's been doing it twenty-five years and going to India every other week and studying with every 'guru' under the sun or somebody with a nice smile and inviting personality who knows a little 'yoga' and makes you WANT to practice to begin to turn inwards. Love my wise and experienced teacher and all he's taught me but would I have wanted to study with him four years ago? probably not. Bindy has it, just have to do your practice, everything else probably is coming....and whoever inspires somebody to do that, well we should probably appreciate them.<br /><br />All those riots in my home town, I'm of the feeling that perhaps there's not enough yoga teachers. I want to see Mr T in gold lame yoga pants in Brixton, Hell, I'd even put up with Bikram if he turned some of the looters on to practice and some self reflection.Grimmlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00301656317399292135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4499398322302495158.post-57523886160399871822011-08-12T03:11:02.403+02:002011-08-12T03:11:02.403+02:00Nice one Y! Key word: Meaning.Nice one Y! Key word: Meaning.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4499398322302495158.post-74646591897556038502011-08-12T00:22:56.306+02:002011-08-12T00:22:56.306+02:00Hi Linda, loved your post! It's tough to be a ...Hi Linda, loved your post! It's tough to be a yoga teacher these days eh? It's unfortunate that the good yoga teachers have to compete with the not so good but better looking and more charismatic ones, but it's kind of like that with every industry I think. <br /><br />Hi Bindy, I agree with you totally. When I first started I would ask the teacher lots of questions and get frustrated when they can't always answer me (not general questions, ones that are very specific to my body). With repeated practice the answers were eventually revealed on their own. It's quite cool actually. If only everything else in life were like this too :)Yoginihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09483919150641771008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4499398322302495158.post-26523461659676345352011-08-11T23:13:26.668+02:002011-08-11T23:13:26.668+02:00there's really only one way to learn. do your ...there's really only one way to learn. do your practice EVERY DAY over a period of YEARS & all of the answers come. 99% of the questions about almost ANYTHING yoga happens only after thousands of practices. the answers are in the practice. <br />than you are ready to teach. <br />nice blogAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4499398322302495158.post-40475287727503858262011-08-11T22:58:20.760+02:002011-08-11T22:58:20.760+02:00wow. that John Friend video hit a nerve. I recen...wow. that John Friend video hit a nerve. I recently blogged about it also....see http://lindasyoga.com "babies teaching babies" post....Linda-Samahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07664989345039365084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4499398322302495158.post-67758416969138277032011-08-11T19:59:11.327+02:002011-08-11T19:59:11.327+02:00Hi Nathan, I think your meditation classes might d...Hi Nathan, I think your meditation classes might do really well because there aren't that many good ones out there! I'm not exactly "frustrated" by the yoga industry. I am a little surprised that there are so few progressive classes. I really thought there would be a demand for them. I guess people do teacher training programs instead, but learning how to teach vs. Learning to further one's own 8-limbs yoga progress are two different things in my mind.Yoginihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09483919150641771008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4499398322302495158.post-89463760471002461832011-08-11T17:55:48.783+02:002011-08-11T17:55:48.783+02:00I share many of your frustrations with the yoga in...I share many of your frustrations with the yoga industry, and am currently living through endless questions as a teacher training student (with a lot of practice under my belt). <br /><br />However, I think there are different ways to truly challenge people. Whether I end up teaching or not, I'm aiming for meditative classes that might not work up a mad sweat, but will definitely push the boundaries of attention, and mindfulness of body and breath. <br /><br />Because what I am seeing is how much focus is placed the physical aspects of practice and how often the more subtle, deeper elements are short changed.Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13920234350446745482noreply@blogger.com